Sustainable Tourism Summary from Pauline Sheldon podcast

August 9, 2019 john 0 Comments

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One of the first people to bring some spiritual concerns into the economic debate. Later on about a decade later, the new economics foundation was created and subsequently a number of other coalitions and alliances at the international level are starting to look at wellbeing, green economies and shifting, the analytical platform. One of the key things in that shift has to do with metrics. What should we measure now instead of GDP? How do we get our finger on the pulse of what is happening within an economy? And there are at least three very valid, well-respected, metrics that happy planet index, that genuine progress indicator and gross national happiness that have been developed, all of which, have a lot of rigour behind them.

A structure of transactions, of different resources, right? And what we tend to think about when we think of economics is financial capital, the financial resource. But while all these new thinkers are saying is that’s not the only capital, that’s not the only wealth that we as human beings have. There are thousands, hundreds, lots of other forms of capital. There’s social capital, there’s natural resource capital is intellectual capital, trust, capital, experientials, capital, spiritual capital, cultural capital, compassion capital. These are just a few of the types of capital that if we bring those into the equation, if we add those into the framework, then we’ll start making different decisions as we move forward. So there are many, many new types of economists that are spoken about today. There’s six that I would particularly like to mention, four of them briefly and two of them in some depth that I think have a lot of relevance to tourism as we move forward.

We all know about the sharing and the collaborative economy. Uh, it was founded under the concept of a use of own shared resources on use resources and it was based in the gift economy. It has become extremely monetized. Airbnb, Uber and all the rest of them have shifted it away into something that’s more like a corporate model than sharing clarity. Penny. However, the concept of the basic sharing collaborative economy has some value to it. Um, the economy of creativity where the focus is put on the intellectual, the creative, the human resources, and where innovation can happen within a culture, uh, through measuring the knowledge, the intellectual capital, and so on. Very important to tourism as we start to look to designing new experiences and new products. The third type of economy that again I think has relevance to tourism is called the circular economy, otherwise known as, um, the economy of resource efficiency.

This tries to break away from the produce use and throw away model that, uh, has existed for decades, which is extremely wasteful. We buy things, we use them and we throw them away. The whole idea of recycling, reusing, upcycling and so on is something upon which, uh, the circular economy is based. And I, there are small destinations, uh, that are working with this to sort of see what waste is coming from different parts of the tourism experience and trying to recycle them. Uh, very interesting. Uh, new approach to studying the economy is what’s called a sacred economy. And a very brilliant thinker by the name of Charles Eisenstein has put this together, uh, looking at the underlying humanity, uh, our ability or desire to be interconnected. The respect for all living beings and a lot of work is being done now in, in the sacred economy.

And again, with tourism. Having that aspect, you know, many people travel for this kind of experience. They are looking for something deep and meaningful and so that, uh, certainly has some relevance. But the two that I would like to spend a little bit more time on the economy of generosity, otherwise known as, uh, the gift economy and the regenerative economy, which I think is one of the most profound models that I have seen. Uh, in terms of how we can move forward. And I think it’s important for tourism to start looking at all of these, uh, as alternate models to the production model that we have been working with. So the economy of generosity, I start with this one. Generosity is a fascinating concept and when we compare it to greed, which is what we’ve criticised already in the old model, corporate greed, personal greed, whatever it is, it’s very, very interesting.

And Neuron scientists have started to study what goes on in the human brain when we’re engaged in something greedy, whatever that would be for you versus something where we being generous. And what they found is in both cases, a chemical is produced in the brain that brings some sort of a good feeling if you’re in a greedy activity, so to speak, it creates dopamine and dopamine is connected with the chemical that addicts experience when they get their high, it’s short-lived, it’s a spike, and then there’s a crash and a w we just don’t care for other people. We just interested in getting our own high right? That’s dopamine greed. People who have been generous create Serotonin, which is a very different hormone, very different chemical, which gives longterm sense of longterm wellbeing and tends to make us want to care about other people and gives us a lot more satisfaction in life.

So there’s a lot of very interesting reasons why, uh, we might want to build the muscle of generosity in general for ourselves and in our destinations. Fascinating Ted talk by Nippon Mater called designing for generosity. He says, we need to be designing our lives to create opportunities for generosity. We need to shift what we usually do from consumption. The idea of let’s consume more, let’s buy more, let’s take more vacations, um, to contribute anymore. So it’s a shift from consumption to contribution, from transaction to trust, from isolation, from what about me to the sense of community from scarcity to abundance. This last one is really, really interesting. We have a framework of scarcity that we don’t have enough. It creates different behaviour than if we have a sense of enough or abundance or enough. But the interesting piece here is what is abundance? How do we define abundance?

Is it having tonnes and tonnes of goods, tonnes and tonnes of vacations, tonnes and tonnes of high experiences or is enough? Enough? Okay. So this is a question I think he poses that really brings up some very interesting soul searching as we apply this to tourism. I think there’s a lot of opportunity and I want to share with you some examples. Some of you know a intrepid travel as a tour operator. They are a B Corp. One of the more conscious companies and they have a programme where if you book yourself a nice three, $4,000 tour somewhere exotic and going for a couple of weeks, they have the ability to let you, as you’re booking that at book, perhaps a one day excursion for a disadvantaged child in that destination or some other destination. They provide the platform upon which you can exercise your generosity destinations are doing the same. Amsterdam, a city that’s experiencing massive over tourism.

They are rethinking what they want tourists to be doing in the destination and are looking at this concept of generosity. They put together what they call an untoured list guide, guiding people to do things that are not the typical touristic activities, but something quite different. I’ll give you two examples of experiences that they put in their on tourist guide. One of them is called locals for lunch. Take a local for lunch. And so they’ve set it up so visitors can find out where they can go and meet up with the local, buy them lunch, a sandwich in the park, or a little bit of pasta in an entire whatever it is, and spend an hour or two with a local generosity from the tourist to the resident. The second one is an example of the kinds of behaviour they’re stimulating is um, to go fishing in the canals per plastic.

We all know plastic is in our waterways and needs to be taken out. So why not get the visitors to do it, have fun while they’re doing it and contribute, uh, with their generosity of time in that way. Tonnes of other examples. Those are just to the restaurant industry is also experimenting with, uh, generosity. A restaurant chain called Karma kitchen. This is a, it was started a number of years ago as an experiment. It is now in a lot of major cities in the world. It’s in Tokyo, it’s in London, it’s in Paris. I don’t know if it’s in Australia. So this idea of paying it forward, you know your bill is zero. Somebody before you has paid something and the somehow they’re able to operate and more than just one at one kitchen. Or excuse me, one restaurant. Just one example. So we have to ask ourselves, what would tourism look like if we were to design it for generosity.

It might look like this. So hotel in Cambodia and see Emery called a Shinta Mani, you go into your room, it’s a very nice hotel. It’s a four star hotel, very comfortable. And where you might see a drinks menu on the Credenza, you see this, this is your menu for generosity. Cm Ripa has a community around it that is a disadvantage, not so wealthy. I’d Pratt quite poor. And so what the managers of this hotel have done is listed possible ways that you can contribute to the surrounding community. For example, up to a thousand US dollars, which is a big chunk to help build a home for our family. I give 90 u s dollars to help build a will. You can get a couple of piglets for assisted $60 and you can get a bag of rice for whatever, making it easy for visitors to be generous. And not only do they do that, but once the money is given to the community, they then arrange for the visitors to go and meet the community, the beneficiaries of their donation. You know, what they found, not only is the community obviously benefiting and economically growing as a result, but they want to come back again and again to see the longterm effects of their gift, which means that hotel has massive repeat business, the best occupancy in cm rape. And so it’s a business proposition that works, right? Pretty creative. Yep. Okay. So I think we have to ask that question. How can we create, uh, opportunities for generosity? So the generosity economy, very rich in opportunities, I think for shifting how we do tourism.

Tourism is under pressure to be more sustainable. Like other industries. We want tourist operators to promote recycling, renewable energy and protection for the natural environment. This push for sustainability is all very well, but Pauline Sheldon thinks we can go further to repair and restore our environment.

In 2015 Yale University Centre for business and the environment published this book called Gen regenerative capitalism, how universal principles and patterns can shape our new economy. John Fullerton was the main author of this. He was a Wall Street banker and was so disillusioned with the system. He quit. He took a few years to think about things, read a lot, and this is the result of his work together with obviously a few other people. He said, we have to look at systems and we have to move beyond sustainability. We’re all talking sustainable tourism these days, right? Sustainable tourism is not enough. You have conventional ways of doing business which can be very degenerating to a society and economy or an environment tends to use mech mechanistic thinking, reductionist thinking, and is very consumptive of resources. You can then move along to being a bit green, making sure your towels don’t get washed if necessary.

That whole hotel, a little bit of greenness, right? Oh, you can be more significant and move towards sustainability. They seen that snide enough. We have to become restorative and regenerate our environment. We have to be more creative. And to do that we have to have systemic, holistic thinking. We have to actually look towards nature and see how it organises itself and regenerates itself. And there are so many models, uh, that we can talk about later that are giving us insights into how we can make an economy regenerative so that we using less and less energy and giving back more and restructuring and restoring, uh, what we have. So this particular piece of thought talks about eight principles, uh, of a regenerative economy. And, uh, what I would like to do is adapt this to tourism. He says, you got to have the scale of economic activity or in our case, tourism in the right relationship to the environment or the biosphere in which it is operating, right?

So that means the scale of tourism has to match and be in, in harmony with the environment that it is built on. Uh, there has to be the right level of um, relationship between the tourist and the environment and the tourist and the resident moving along. The second one is viewing wealth holistically. This comes back to our discussion of capital. Different kinds of capital. Wealth is not about money. What does this mean for tourism? It means that as we thought to look at what the wealth to an economy is from tourism. We cannot rely on the measures of arrivals and expenditures. We’ve got to look at more qualitative measures and we can discuss later what some of those might be. The third principle of a regenerative economy is there needs to be an innovative and adaptive response. We’ve got to build the innovation and tourism is a, it’s a very natural sector to to ha to build that entrepreneurship.

We need empowered participation. The community must be involved in uh, the tourism related decisions that are being made, honouring of place and community. We have to look at the culture, the traditions, and the sense of place and human needs, uh, as that principle. This next one is fascinating. I love this next one, the edge effect. And abundance. What Fullerton says here is that when we have the intersection between two sectors or even two organisations, you know, like in an ocean, when there’s waves coming from both directions and they crest, that’s where the excitement happens. That’s where the innovation happens. And so that’s what he calls the edge effect. And so I think tourism has a lot to learn here. Not only do we have sectors within our industry, we have hospitality, transportation, visitor attractions, events and so on. And the intersection of those often does bring some, uh, kind of, um, innovation, but also tourism, working collaboratively with all of the other industries too.

There has to be robust circulation of wealth and knowledge throughout the destination. And finally, of course, a balance between the economic and the social ecological, uh, costs. So this is sort of my thinking that’s wrapped around, uh, the regenerative economy thinking and how we can benefit as tourism to start looking at these things. Now, what the authors of this system talk about is it’s not linear. You know, we don’t sort of work on number one and then we’ll call number two and work on number three. It’s like eight legs of a stool, you know, you pull one and they all come along and you look at patterns of how one affects the other. And so it’s a very organic kind of growth or shift, uh, towards a regenerative economy. So I want to look now and share quickly to a examples of where I think a, this kind of work is happening.

And the first one is Copenhagen in Denmark and they are the authors, by the way of this, a end of tourism as we know it. A number of years ago, the Destination Marketing Organisation station sat down in Copenhagen because they were experiencing over tourism and they said, that’s an end. We can’t continue like this anymore. And I’d like to read to you if you’re, if I might, what they concluded, and they said this, we pay our respects to the tourists of the past, the mass consumers and the passing days of disconnected tourism segmentation between business and leisure city and countryside, culture and cycling, et Cetera. We bid farewell to an era of tourism as an isolated industry bubble of culture and leisure experts. We leave behind the days of equating tourism marketing with glossy picture, perfect advertising. We recognise the expiration of our role as the destinations promotional superstar, the official Destination Marketing Organisation with an authority to consumer influence broadcasting superiority in an exclusive right to promote and shape a destination.

Bold, brave, courageous thinking, wouldn’t you say? Yeah, and they decided they were not going to use the word tourism anymore. They decided that everybody in Copenhagen is a resident, some of them for 365 days, some of them for five days, but there were short term or longterm resonant and this led them to different strategies. Okay, and let me quickly go through some of the strategies and how it relates to this regenerative wheel that we just looked at. First of all, they said we’re only going to have growth that is sensitive to people visited. Growth is not our goal. Increasing the value of visitors to all parties. This shareability bringing together the residents and the short term residents or either travellers, the focus on repeat visitation with people who know and have some understanding and knowledge of the destination, uh, and therefore are more sensitive to it and co-innovation working together across sectors for the benefit of all.

So if we map that onto our regenerative economy cycle, I think you would agree that there are at least three of these, uh, principles that they are working on. Uh, the first one would be viewing wealth holistically. The fact that they’re not going to be measuring visitor growth as the goal, but they’re going to be looking at other measures in right relationship. They are trying to get a good balance between the people in the destination and of course the edge effect, the co-innovation, the working together across sectors to try to define what kind of experience, uh, visitors to Copenhagen may have very, very innovative, strong, bold, courageous decision making. I’d like to quickly share a little bit of the work we’re doing in Hawaii. You know, we’re a mass destination. We’re a beautiful destination, but we are certainly, uh, discussing the issues of over tourism.

Uh, we have very high visitor numbers right now. Uh, for the last year or two, uh, we have, uh, at the state level implemented something called the Aloha plus challenge. We are not as bold as Copenhagen, but we are certainly using this concept of Aloha, which is sort of the cultural, a bedrock of Hawaii and the, by the way, the native Hawaiian people, the office of Hawaiian Affairs is behind this initiative. Um, we are looking at six metrics to sort of move our destination forward. The issue of clean energy. We’re a place where there are so many ways to get clean energy or thermal wind, solar, I think more than anywhere else on the planet. Probably. We have resources for that. Uh, natural resource management. We have great resources that need to be better managed. We need smart communities. Recycling is so critical because of the waste. You know, we have landfills no more and it needs to be dealt with workforce, bringing green principles into education, local food.

If you look at the stats, I’ll show you in a moment. We are not self sufficient. If y you were to be cut off from a transportation routes, we wouldn’t live for very long. The top, so these are some of our challenges. What our government has decided to do with the industry is to work on these six dimensions and created a dashboard for each with metrics metrics of how we can track our movement in each of these directions. Trying to get the right relationship between visitors on a beautiful state. So that’s a couple of destinations. There’s lots more. I don’t have time to talk, but there’s a lot of other places. Just two examples of movement towards this regenerative economy. I also would like to spend a couple of minutes talking about how firms are starting to change because they often get the bad rap, right? How many industry people do we have here?

You corporate greedy people, right? No, you’re not. You’re just doing things a little differently and I think you’d all agree there’s a shift between the old corporation of yesterday as a machine. We are maximise profits, maximise growth, see employees as costs and all the wealth goes to the shareholders and the CEO versus corporations as living systems where the growth is organic. A, the profits are ethical and employees and the people of the corporation are the assets of the corporation. And we get value for stakeholders as opposed to wealth for shareholders. Lots of different types of values based firms. And some of these are in tourism. Now. We were hoping that more and more we’ll, we’ll come on board. Corporate social responsibility and shared value as I’m first brought out by Michael Porter from Harvard is certainly showing up in our industry. Uh, the idea of conscious capitalism, um, where these four elements, uh, are required.

If a company wants to become part of the conscious capitalism movement, there has to be a higher purpose other than profit. Um, there has to be fake holder orientation as opposed to shareholder orientation, conscious leadership and a culture that builds this. So because and so on, these are all movements, uh, and how we’re shifting, uh, firms to be more responsible socially. So how can destinations nurture these type of companies? What can we do in a destination to make sure that we get the enlightened firms as opposed to the old type. The other thing I’d like to comment on is, you know, corporations are not innately bad. Corporations can be very good at an important force in solving some global problems. I’m going to give you an example in a moment of, of how tourism firms can do that. As we look at business activity, uh, in the new economy, social entrepreneurship is going to be a very, very important, uh, player.

I call it the new DNA of the business world. Uh, it’s a new thinking. It’s a fastest growing, uh, business change agents, uh, in tourism and in other industries too. And as you know, what is social entrepreneurship? It’s the innovative, compassionate risk-taking to create social change while making a profit. Uh, there has to be the profit because it’s a business and tourism with its easy level of entry, it’s focused on micro enterprises is certainly well suited to social entrepreneurship. The challenge is how to scale up, uh, to have bigger impact. Um, I recently, uh, published a book on Social Entrepreneurship and tourism with my colleague Roberto Danieli there who is the king of tourism, social entrepreneurship. He is currently, he’s a fascinating guy. I just have to tell you one thing about him. He was in academia until three years ago and he said, it’s time to do something different.

So he got on his bicycle with his wife from Oxford, England and cycling, cycling around the world. Uh, I met up with him in Bali last month and he’s on his last leg. He flew into Darwin and is travelling from Darwin down to Melbourne. So he’s on his way. If you have a chance to talk to Roberto Danieli when he gets here, please do. Uh, he created some social entrepreneurship and tourism programmes in Iran and throughout his journey in Italy and Sicily, he’s been the pioneer for this one example, fun example I thought I’d share with you is this new a social enterprise called clean the world. Anybody know about it? Clean the world. Fascinating. A couple of entrepreneurs, social entrepreneurs decided that they were going to go to a major hotel chain and take all the soap, unused soap from the guestrooms. You know, you go and you spend one night and you have a whole bar of soap and you, you wash your hands with it once and it sits there.

Right? So what does the hotel do? Throw it away, can’t reuse it, can’t have the next guests use it. So they arranged a system where they picked up all of this semi use soap from all the high end hotels in the world that would participate with them. They had a system where they took it to a plant where it was washed. If you wash soap, repackage it into usable soap, distributed it to developing countries and creating education programmes where uh, people who need to understand more or the cleanliness and washing the hands and you really help with the health. We’re able, they put that whole network together pretty great. Yeah. And the power of the corporation, right. It was much easier for them because they did create a relationship with higher and so it was easier than going to hotel a hotel B. Okay. So a, a partnering with social entrepreneurship, their desire to make a difference and the corporate world social intrepreneurship I think is also very important.

Intrepreneurs are those creative spill with the same mindset. They’re innovative, they’re risk-taking, they’re compassionate, but they’re making change within firms structures within the traditional corporations. So the thinking and the shift comes from inside. And I’m, this is where I got very involved 10 years ago starting the tourism education futures initiative, trying to educate future leaders of tourism in being a change maker, not in becoming an employee, a cog in a wheel, in a corporate wheel. So much of our education as you know how to be a front desk person, no, we need to create people who are going to make a difference, make a change, think differently shift. Um, our current system, our tourists are also changing transformative tourism. People who travelled to make a difference. And we, we found that there is a significant portion of the travelling public who are shifting their values in their motivation for travel, right?

They yearning for meaning. They want to make a contribution. They have benevolence, generosity if you want. And they are really wanting to engage in deeper and more meaningful ways with destinations. Um, and I think as I’ve said earlier, the design design of tourism, products and services to address our common humanity, our desire to connect, our desire to contribute is definitely needed to meet their Hungary demands, uh, for this kind of travel. And even more profoundly, I think we need to change the narrative when we talk about tourists as being consumers, to being global citizens, people who care wherever they go to make a difference. And I just have to share one personal experience with you that just blew me away. A couple of years ago, we had a new incumbent in our White House in the u s and as a result, there were a number of, um, women’s marches that took place in January of that year.

And maybe you read about it. Um, I used to march as a hippie but hadn’t for a good number of decades, but I attended this women’s March. It blew me away. As I looked around and talked to people, a large amount of those people were tourists. They had come to Hawaii and they had decided to spend their Saturday marching for women’s rights or political reasons should we say amazing, Huh? It shows us that lying on the beach and having a Mai Tai is not what the future tourism experiences about. How are we responding to that? How can we harness that desire of tourists as we look at the state of our world, there is one important thing I think we often miss and that’s the animal sector are creatures. Um, we are at a state in the world today where species are being annihilated and endangers at a rate that is frightening and I think tourism needs to reflect on this also.

We often use animals as objects of commerce or entertainment and often not always, but often they are not well looked after and there is some suffering involved. And I think as we move to a more enlightened kind of tourism, we have to consider this in tourism, TripAdvisor and Thomas Cook, I’m happy to say have decided they no longer will support any kind of vacations where there’s an interface with an endangered species or any kind of cruelty to animals. And I would like to just throw out one little thing here. You know, there are two things that, um, are the most destructive and pushing us further into climate change than anything else, long haul air travel. And the second is the consumption of meat. So think about that one. This quote from Danella Med meadows I think is really, uh, hits the nail on the head. Uh, the hardest things to change are the mindsets that create the systems that need to be changed, right?

How are we going to do that? Couple of suggestions think we know need to nurture human values in all tourism stakeholders, help destinations to sort of come to grips with this new economic thinking. Uh, create more metrics in tourism, uh, that reflect wellbeing and support what I call bridge builders. As we shift from one paradigm to another. There’s people who are in the old paradigm, this the future, our students who are going to be in the new paradigm hopefully, but there’s people who are trying to create that bridge, support them. When you find somebody who’s trying to be a change maker and bring new ideas, if we can support those bridge builders, it will move ish and shift us into the new paradigm quicker than anything else. The second thing that I think is critical is the creation of more networks and hubs. We have to get people collaborating, firms collaborating, making more connections within the tourism sector with tourism changemakers but with changemakers throughout the whole of society, there is a danger, I think of tourism being siloed.

We think this happens in Hawaii. I criticise Hawaii. I don’t know about Australia, maybe a different, but in Hawaii the tourism tech sector thinks they’re special. They’re a little separate and then not engaging in the bigger debates, uh, of society and so on. I think we need to do that. And lastly, we have to have a vision I think of where we going in the future and design things to meet that vision design visitor experiences that will nurture the destination’s, create more interaction opportunities for visitors and residents. A look at the design of our, uh, the architecture for our physical spaces and the inclusion of nature a lot more is something that researchers are showing has a profound effect on wellbeing. And there’s a lot of things I’ve sort of tried to share with you and it’s a bit overwhelming when we think of, you know, how do you change a massive industry like tourism to something that can be regenerative of the destinations? It’s huge and it seems impossible, but as Nelson Mandela said, it always seems impossible until it’s done. Thank you very much.

It’s difficult to adopt a new way of doing business when everyone else is on the old path growth rather than sustainability is the current measure of success for both individual businesses and the broader economy. The first comment from the audience comes from a tourism operator who’s been working in developing countries

Can I say I’ve spent the last 10 years looking at a tourism in the green economy and perhaps we would more of where you are in, in Hawaii and allow our looking at all the components of making that. But the work that I and colleagues have done has been in the developing world, in China, in India, in Indonesia, and now parts of Africa and uh, uh, the Pacific islands, etc. And as soon as you go to those countries, you deal with all the stakeholders, whether it’s civil society or NGOs, tourism industry and government and government. Important in all of them. And overwhelmingly what they tell you is what they want is better education, better health, better income, uh, for their society. And you know, what delivers is that and what’s been delivering that is growth. So me and my dear old mate Jeffrey Lichtman, we can, uh, put out green economy as green growth.

And our aim was to disconnect or the capital growth from the impacts of growth, use of resources, etc. Now we’ve been criticised wherever we are right in that because, um, what we’re saying, should we have growth? Should we move away from growth? But if you talk to any of those economies, any of those people, you’re not connecting with anyone in Australia. We’ve just had a wonderful election and we had a government that was really in serious trouble that did my dudes, you know, fights between its leaders and was in desperate straights. Yet it went to the, to the last election one month ago saying one thing, we want growth and we want a good economy and have a guest who got elected. They did. So it’s not only the developing world, so we’ve got an enormous challenge ahead of us. And so I’d just asked you to Reese to respond to my, and our groups use of the word growth within the tourism sectors. Green moving into this green economy or green growth.

Oh, that’s, that’s a big question Terry. And thank you for posing it so eloquently. I think it comes down to what are we growing? I mean it’s not, the growth is bad. Um, but what is it that’s growing? I mean, Kate to ray worth in her fabulous book, she says, well, you know, usually we think growth is good. Um, but if your mother would’ve come home and say she just found out she got a growth from a doctor, then it wouldn’t be good. Right? So, so it’s, it’s, it’s what is it that’s growing? Where is it growing and what is the context with an issue growing? And so I think it’s, it’s about metrics. It’s about what we’re measuring. And if we can sort of get a handle on what those things are, we should be measuring to see what, you know, we want to grow, then we might move forward. I don’t know if that answers your very eloquent question, but that’s my best stab at it. Thank you.

Thanks point for a fantastic presentation. Clive Dwyer from the committee, from Bob, and I have a simple question that we can learn from it and maybe this focuses back on the work you’re doing in a way. But, um, one of the metrics we’re not measuring in Melbourne I think very well is actually the visit of feedback. Um, so the visitor experience that we’re supposedly champion on, I completely agree with is driven by GDP. Every metric I look at, every piece of research is about growth and visitation and increased aviation and increased this increase that I can’t put a finger on any, any research in Melbourne that actually measures the level of satisfaction of our visitor. The notion of exit survey, the notion of feedback, the notion of quality of experience. How does Hawaii do that?

Yeah. Thank you for the question club. Yeah. We have, um, done an outstandingly good job in a way, uh, with the, with this visitor satisfaction survey, we have a data series going back decades and the way that we do it, um, because we’re an island data collection is easier because you catch people as they come in on the plane. And so every person coming into Hawaii has to fill out what’s called an agricultural, uh, form a little bit like you guys have, right? But on the back of that form is asking them about the tourist behaviour, where they’re going, hammered Hampton, Dah, Dah, Dah. These are all collected by the airlines given to Hawaii Tourism Authority who then samples those and contacts the visitor in their hotel or the airbnb or wherever they’re staying and provides them with a questionnaire that they then, um, carry with them.

It also asks them about their expenditure patterns and at the end they turn this in and they get an incentive. So the incentivize the response and that I think has been pretty successful. Um, one of the things we’ve thought a lot about is when is it best to find out what their level of experience is? The satisfaction? Is it just as they’re about to get on the plane to leave? Is it two weeks later after they’ve been home? Is it at the point of the, a experience when they go and visit sea life park or whatever it might be. Um, and I think we found before they leave is probably the best time cause they’re still in the experience of the destination. It’s not being coloured by whatever happened to them when they got home. So useless. And Jeff from Vu long haul a travel, what are some suggestions about improving that?

Yeah, I as in a, as in carbon emissions or as in the quality of experience of both, I guess from Australia. Anywhere we go even to our nearest neighbours. It’s a flight. Yeah. Yeah. You certainly have the tyranny of distance here, don’t you? And bringing people here in yourselves travelling. I totally get that. Being somebody who was born in England and lived in Honolulu, I, yeah, I, I get what long haul travel is all about. Okay. The airline sector has a long way to go. It has decarbonize for us to have any semblance of being sustainable or regenerative. New Technologies, biofuels, headway is being made in this area. But as we look at the emissions right now, even though Al aircraft technology is improving, there’s all kinds of ways it’s improving. Emissions are increasing from airlines. And so something’s got to give, you know, I the technology people who, uh, we, I mean we’ve got solar flight but we don’t have commercial solar flight.

Um, and so there’s a lot of developments that still have to happen for us to get anywhere close to being decarbonized. Um, you know, I said at the beginning of my presentation that that pricing’s are not accurate. Um, as I said, I’ve lived in Honolulu for a good number of decades and my family’s in England, so I’m doing that route a lot. And when I first moved to Hawaii, it used to cost me about between 1,012 hundred US dollars to do Honolulu to London. It’s now 40 years later. And do you know what it costs me? Honolulu, London, about 1200 $1,500. And that’s nominal dollars. That’s not real dollars. I mean real dollars. That’s minuscule compared to what it costs 40 years ago, let alone if we were to add in the carbon offset. Right. So I think that air travel has to go up dramatically.

I think low cost airlines, as wonderful as they are, for us to go from HEB and have a fun time somewhere are not the model of the rigidity of economy. I personally think I should be paying more to go halfway around the world than $1,000. I think that’s the big thing that has to be titled is the elephant in the room. And some people are swearing off airline, longterm, long haul travel, and they choosing to only drive or train or boat. Some members of my family do that. They refuse to get a long haul of trips. More of us may have to do that. More of us may choose to do that. And that’s where Australia I think will suffer. You don’t have to go with your clothes. Um, markets. Yeah.

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